对话赵九杰（三）：让厚重表达空灵，油彩写意与色彩的历史气象|写意|壁画|水墨|油彩|油画|绘画|艺术|赵九杰

花开富贵 No.2 |Blooming FortuneNo.2

布面油画 |Oil on canvas

120×120cm

2023

话题一

问：您是如何在画布上处理这种“矛盾”的：既要保留油画颜料特有的厚重质感和丰富色彩，又要传达出水墨写意那般轻盈、空灵的韵律感？在技法层面，您有哪些独到的探索？

How do you navigate this apparent "contradiction" on the canvas: preserving the thick texture and rich, substantial color characteristic of oil paint, while simultaneously conveying the ethereal lightness and rhythmic charm of ink wash painting? Could you elaborate on any unique technical explorations you have undertaken in this regard?

答：我认为这属于个人习惯的差异。在我看来，油画语言有其自身的特点——色彩表达更为丰富，具有独特的厚重感。但这并非绝对，它完全可以与水墨、泼墨等技法相融合。

通过用油的方式，画面可以呈现出更强的韵律感和空灵性，这很符合东方美学的表达。因此在我的处理方式上，基本以泼墨写意的手法为主，同时辅以局部的厚重堆叠，有时也会刻意留出一些留白。这些都属于个人的理解与探索——即便是厚重的颜色，同样可以传达空灵的意境，关键在于如何运用。

I believe this comes down to differences in individual practice. In my view, the language of oil painting has its own distinctive characteristics—richer color expression and a unique sense of substance and weight. However, this is not absolute; it can certainly be integrated with techniques such as ink wash and splashed ink.

Through the use of oil as a medium, the painting can achieve a stronger sense of rhythm and ethereality, which aligns well with the expression of Eastern aesthetics. Therefore, in my approach, I primarily employ splashed-ink freehand techniques, complemented by localized areas of thick impasto, and occasionally I intentionally leave some blank spaces. These are matters of personal exploration and understanding—even heavy, textured colors can convey an ethereal quality; it all depends on how they are handled.

光 |Light

布面油画 |Oil on canvas

150×150cm

2025

答：在我的绘画实践中，我一直尝试将水墨手法融入其中，这种融合是完全可行的，并且已有许多成熟的艺术家在这方面进行了深入的探索。就我而言，在近现代及未来的探索中，我更倾向于以泼彩的方式，将油彩、大漆、矿物颜料以及油画颜料通过用油的方式溶解在一起，形成一种既带有水墨韵味、又兼具油画丰富性的表达。从材料的功能性来看，这种融合是完全可行的。我也积累了不少经验，包括将泼墨方式与油彩相结合，它们是可以共同运用的。

In my painting practice, I have consistently attempted to incorporate ink wash methods. This integration is entirely feasible, and many accomplished artists have already undertaken in-depth explorations in this direction. As for my own work, in recent years and looking toward the future, I am increasingly inclined to use a splashed-color approach, dissolving oil paints, lacquer, mineral pigments, and oil colors together through the medium of oil. This creates an expression that carries the essence of ink wash while retaining the richness of oil painting. From the perspective of material properties, this fusion is entirely achievable. I have also accumulated considerable experience in this area, including combining splashed-ink techniques with oil colors—they can indeed be used together.

出水芙蓉 |Lotus Rising from Water

布面油画 |Oil on canvas

200×160cm

2006

话题二

问：您曾从敦煌、龟兹壁画中提炼出独特的“五色体系”。在西方现当代艺术中，从马蒂斯到罗斯科，色彩本身就是情绪和精神的载体。您能否具体谈谈，您是如何从千年壁画的斑驳痕迹中，解码并转化出属于您自己的、能对应不同情绪的色彩语言的？这个过程更像是一场严谨的理性分析，还是一种沉浸式的感性熏陶？这种色彩观背后，是否隐喻着东方文化中某种关于自然与时间的宇宙观？

You have extracted a unique "Five-Color System" from the Dunhuang and Kizil murals. In Western modern and contemporary art, from Matisse to Rothko, color itself serves as a carrier of emotion and spirit. Could you discuss in detail how you deciphered and transformed your own color language—one capable of evoking different emotional states—from the mottled traces of these thousand-year-old murals? Was this process more of a rigorous rational analysis. Does this view of color carry deeper metaphorical implications about Eastern cultural perspectives on nature and time?

度母 |Tara

布面油画 |Oil on canvas

80×100cm

2015

答：我所说的五色体系，其实不仅来源于敦煌壁画和龟兹壁画，更根植于中国传统文化，尤其是《黄帝内经》中的五色理论。红、黄、蓝、白、黑五种颜色对应着五种情绪表达，这与西方的色彩心理学研究有相通之处——不同色调所传达的情绪是不同的，而这种感受具有普世性，是人类共通的。

我认为这是一种帮助人们更好理解绘画的渠道和方式。在色彩的背后，承载着某种精神内涵，以及人对大自然的感知与理解。

The Five-Color System I speak of actually derives not only from Dunhuang and Kizil murals, but is even more deeply rooted in traditional Chinese culture, particularly the Five-Color theory found in the Yellow Emperor's Inner Canon. The five colors—red, yellow, blue, white, and black—correspond to five emotional expressions. This shares common ground with Western color psychology—different color tones convey different emotions, and this sensibility is universal, something common to all humanity.

I believe this provides a channel and a way to help people better understand painting. Behind color lies a certain spiritual connotation, as well as a person's perception and understanding of nature.

答：无论是东方壁画，其本体语言本身就蕴含着佛教的内容。在宗教语境中，色彩是一种“表法”的形式——某种颜色表达着特定的境界。壁画语言是用形象来表达经文内容的方式，而色彩的提炼恰恰承载了某种精神境界，以及宗教修法方式的表达。在龟兹壁画中，许多色彩都是对某种“法”的表语表述。在密法的色彩学中，色彩承担着表法的功能，它表达的是一种精神境界和修行的方法。

当然，我们通常只将其理解为一种美的形式语言，但实际上它蕴含着宗教内容和修法的具体内涵，涵盖着情绪与精神。比如蓝色代表怒相，这在色彩语言中有着特定的指向。

Whether in Eastern murals, the intrinsic language itself contains Buddhist content. In a religious context, color serves as a form of "symbolic expression"—a particular color expresses a particular state or realm. The language of murals uses imagery to convey the content of scriptures, while the refinement of color carries a certain spiritual realm and the expression of religious practice methods. In the Kizil murals, many colors serve as representational expressions of specific "dharmas." In the color theory of Vajrayana Buddhism, color assumes the function of symbolic expression, conveying a spiritual state and a method of practice.

Of course, we typically understand this only as a formal aesthetic language, but in reality it contains specific religious content and connotations of practice, encompassing emotion and spirit. Blue, for example, represents the wrathful aspect—a specific orientation within the language of color.

蓝色交响 |Blue Symphony

布面油画 |Oil on canvas

150×150cm

2025

答：某个历史时期壁画的色彩呈现，实际上表达了那个时代的精神境界。以魏晋南北朝为例，这一时期的壁画以蓝紫色调居多，表达的是一种孤寂、凄冷的意境。魏晋时期正值五胡十六国，战乱频繁，这种色彩恰恰对应了中国传统绘画中所讲的“清瘦秀骨”之风。这种表达方式，承载着那个时代的文化精神。我在研究色彩学与历史时期的关系时，曾深入探讨过这一问题。

再如，红、黄、红绿色调居多的时期，尤其是红加金的配色，多见于唐宋时期，特别是唐朝的鼎盛阶段。这一时期社会安定、经济富裕、百姓生活幸福感强，色彩呈现出黄绿的平衡对比，加之金色的运用，更代表了一种富足与安定的情绪。

到了宋代，青绿山水盛行。这与当时道家文化的盛行、遁世哲学的兴起密切相关。人们对个人修行、遁世精神的追求，以及对自然的亲近、“天人合一”的思想，恰恰通过青绿山水这种色彩语言表达出来。这同样是色彩学在特定历史时期的文化呈现。

The color presentation of murals in a given historical period actually expresses the spiritual state of that era. Taking the Wei, Jin, and Northern and Southern Dynasties as an example, murals from this period predominantly feature blue and purple tones, conveying a mood of solitude and desolation. This period coincided with the Sixteen Kingdoms era, a time of frequent warfare. These colors precisely correspond to the aesthetic of "pure and slender elegance" spoken of in traditional Chinese painting. This mode of expression carries the cultural spirit of that era. When researching the relationship between color theory and historical periods, I have explored this question in depth.

Another example is the prevalence of red, yellow, and red-green tones, particularly the combination of red with gold, which is commonly seen in the Tang and Song dynasties, especially during the peak period of the Tang Dynasty. This was a time of social stability, economic prosperity, and a strong sense of well-being among the people. The colors display a balanced contrast between yellow and green, and the use of gold further represents an emotion of abundance and tranquility.

By the Song Dynasty, blue-green landscape painting flourished. This is closely related to the rise of Taoist culture and the emergence of reclusive philosophy during that period. People's pursuit of personal cultivation, the spirit of reclusion, their closeness to nature, and the idea of "harmony between heaven and humanity" were precisely expressed through the color language of blue-green landscapes. This, too, represents a cultural manifestation of color theory in a specific historical period.

欢喜 |Bliss

布面油画 |Oil on canvas

160×200cm

2017

参加2023年国家艺术基金项目克孜尔壁画研究展

答：我认为色彩首先表达的是情绪，其次表达的是境界，再放大来看，它表达的是一个时期的文化、一条文脉、一种精神状态——某个历史时期的整体精神面貌。无论是艺术家的个性表达，还是社会总体精神方向的呈现，色彩都具有重要意义。它与历史的延续、我们对自然界的看法，都有着密切的关系。

从美术史的角度看，每个历史时期都会呈现出不同的色彩情绪状态。魏晋南北朝的青紫、蓝紫，唐宋时期的红黄、红绿，色彩呈现各不相同。而清末以后的色彩更加花巧，缺少主导性的色调，这与其政治体制、经济文化状况以及外来文化的介入密切相关，形成了较为繁杂、丰富的局面。这种缺少主色调的状态，与唐宋时期明确的主色调形成了鲜明对比。

这实际上折射出一种历史文化现象。色彩所承载的，不仅是个人的情绪，从更宏观的角度看，它承载着历史文化、每个时代的精神面貌，甚至是一个时期政治经济状况的折射。

I believe that color, first and foremost, expresses emotion; secondly, it expresses a spiritual state; and when viewed on a broader scale, it expresses the culture of an era, a cultural lineage, a certain spiritual condition—the overall spiritual character of a particular historical period. Whether in the individual expression of an artist or the manifestation of a society's collective spiritual direction, color holds significant meaning. It is closely connected to the continuity of history and to our perception of nature.

From the perspective of art history, each historical period presents a different emotional state of color. The blue-purple and violet-blue tones of the Wei, Jin, and Northern and Southern Dynasties, the red-yellow and red-green tones of the Tang and Song Dynasties—each period's color presentation is distinct. From the late Qing Dynasty onward, colors became more ornate and decorative, lacking a dominant tone. This is closely related to the political system, economic and cultural conditions, and the influx of foreign cultures during that time, resulting in a more complex and diverse situation. This absence of a dominant color tone stands in sharp contrast to the clear dominant tones of the Tang and Song periods.

This actually reflects a historical and cultural phenomenon. What color carries is not merely individual emotion; from a broader perspective, it carries historical culture, the spiritual character of each era, and even serves as a reflection of a period's political and economic conditions.