对话赵九杰（四）：莲的母题与创作的精神性|中国油画学会|中国美术馆|对话赵九杰|油画展|绘画|艺术

荷 -白与红|White and Red

布面油画 |Oil on canvas

150×150cm

2024

参加“吾心归处”妥木斯师生油画作品展

话题一

问：“莲”是您艺术世界中最重要的母题。批评家范迪安先生曾说，莲是您“反观自身、悟想佛理的寄托”。这引发了一个关于艺术创作本质的思考：是您先怀揣着一种禅意的心境，不自觉地选择了莲作为表达对象；还是在长年累月、日复一日地描绘莲的过程中，莲所承载的清净、坚韧与智慧，逐渐渗透、重塑了您的生命状态与艺术品格？

The "lotus" is the most important motif in your artistic world. Critic Fan Di'an once remarked that the lotus serves as a vehicle for you to "reflect on yourself and contemplate Buddhist principles." This raises a fundamental question about the nature of artistic creation: Did you, driven by a pre-existing Zen-like state of mind, unconsciously choose the lotus as your subject? Or, through years of daily, dedicated practice in painting the lotus, have its symbolic qualities of purity, resilience, and wisdom gradually permeated and reshaped your own life and artistic character?

答：我先阐述一个基本的概念。“莲”是佛教中的一个重要母题，莲花在佛教中是一种表法的形式。在佛教理论里，莲花象征着佛的境界。为什么如此？《妙法莲华经》中便有关于莲的论述。佛陀曾经清楚地开示，莲的精神值得人们学习：莲花出污泥而不染。它生长于淤泥之中，环境虽然污浊，但它所绽放的花朵与结出的种子却晶莹剔透、一尘不染。

为什么会这样？就好比人一样，我们会经历诸多苦难。这些苦难就如同莲藕所在池塘底部的淤泥。出污泥而不染，意味着我们在生活的五浊恶世之中，依然能够保持清醒，内心保持安静与清洁。这是一件非常不容易的事。佛陀让大家学习莲的精神，其意正在于此。

Let me first explain a basic concept. "Lotus" is an important motif in Buddhism, and the lotus flower is a form of Dharma expression in Buddhism. In Buddhist theory, the lotus symbolizes the realm of Buddhahood. Why is that? The Lotus Sutra (Saddharma Puṇḍarīka Sūtra) also discusses the lotus. The Buddha clearly taught that the spirit of the lotus is worth learning from: the lotus grows from mud but remains unstained. It lives in the mud, in a very defiled environment, yet the flowers and seeds it produces are crystal clear and pristine.

Why is this so? It is like human beings: we all experience many sufferings. These sufferings are like the mud at the bottom of a pond where lotus roots grow. "Emerging from mud but remaining unstained" means that even while living in the defiled world of the five turbidities, one can still remain clear-minded, with a heart that is calm, clean, and pure. This is no easy thing. The Buddha taught people to learn from the spirit of the lotus, and that is precisely the meaning.

荷 -清凉月|Lotus – Moon of Tranquility

布面油画 |Oil on canvas

120×120cm

2024

参加“吾心归处”妥木斯师生油画作品展

答：在《妙法莲华经》中，我读到关于莲的描绘：莲如同佛的存在一般，具有金刚不坏的品质。在生长过程中，它将淤泥转化为自身的养料。而当莲花的花瓣凋落、莲蓬与莲子成熟之时，正是花败落而种子成就的时刻。这一过程没有漏洞，因而被称为“金刚不败之躯”。我们以此比喻人类生活在五浊恶世中，面对诸多烦恼与波折，依然能够保持莲一般高洁的品质。这正是我们应当学习的。

我记得师父曾说过一句话：“步步心酸泪，化作莲花满四海。”这句话将生活的苦难比作莲花生长的淤泥，而通过内心的转化，苦难最终化作满四海的莲花。它所表达的是：愿你初心不改，尽管经历重重苦难，依然能够保持清醒、清洁与圆满。这一点尤为不易，也正是莲的品格所在。

In the Lotus Sutra, I read about the depiction of the lotus: the lotus exists like the Buddha himself, possessing an indestructible, diamond-like quality. During its growth, it transforms the mud into its own nourishment. And when the lotus petals fall and the seed pod and seeds mature, that is precisely the moment when the flower fades and the seeds are accomplished. This process has no flaw, and therefore it is called the "indestructible diamond body." We use this as a metaphor for human beings living in the defiled world of the five turbidities: though facing many afflictions and setbacks, we can still maintain a quality as noble and pure as the lotus. This is precisely what we should learn.

I remember my master once saying: "Step by step, tears of bitterness transform into lotus flowers spreading across the four seas." This saying compares the sufferings of life to the mud in which the lotus grows. Through inner transformation, suffering ultimately turns into lotus flowers that fill the world. What it expresses is this: may your original aspiration remain unchanged. Though you experience countless hardships, you can still maintain clarity, purity, and perfection. This is especially difficult to achieve, and it is precisely the character of the lotus.

盛开 |Full Bloom

布面油画 |Oil on canvas

150×150cm

2024

答：正因如此，我决定将莲作为创作主题。最初，我的作品主要以大自然风景为主，花卉居多。但在后来的修行过程中，我逐渐意识到，应当反观自身，向佛的境界靠近。在绘画中，这一主题本身既具有普世价值，也蕴含着更深层的意义，同时又是极难表达的。在绘画语言与形式上，我不断探索，至今已创作近二十年。每一次创作莲，感受都不尽相同，无论从色彩还是形象上，都更加接近莲的本性与品格。

实际上，我是想借助莲来抒发自己的情感，表达自己对艺术境界的追求。艺术的最终表达，还是要依靠艺术的语言——形象的本体语言、色彩，以及莲本身的姿态与色调，来呈现我们对生命的内在状态。归根结底，艺术最终表达的是我们内心的状态。

For this reason, I decided to make the lotus my central creative theme. In the beginning, my works primarily focused on natural landscapes, with flowers appearing most frequently. However, as I continued my spiritual practice, I gradually came to realize that I should turn my attention inward and draw closer to the realm of Buddhahood. As a subject in painting, the lotus carries universal value and profound meaning, yet it is also extremely difficult to express. In terms of pictorial language and form, I have been continuously exploring for nearly twenty years. With each creation of the lotus, my experience is different. Whether in color or in form, I feel myself drawing closer to the true nature and character of the lotus.

In essence, I seek to express my emotions and my pursuit of an artistic state through the lotus. The ultimate expression of art must rely on the language of art itself—the formal language of imagery, color, and the lotus's own posture and tones—to present our inner state of being. In the final analysis, what art ultimately expresses is the state of our inner heart.

清凉 |Coolness

布面油画 |Oil on canvas

150×150cm

2024

参加中国油画学会30周年庆学术邀请展

话题二

问：对您而言，绘画的过程本身意味着什么？它是一个“通往”某种顿悟、某种澄明境地的“工具”或“通道”，还是说，当您沉浸于绘画，与画布、色彩和那个“莲”的意象合而为一时，那个瞬间本身，就已经是您所追寻的“境地”？

What does the process of painting itself mean to you? Is it a "tool" or a "pathway" towards a moment of enlightenment, a state of clarity? Or, when you are fully immersed in painting, becoming one with the canvas, the colors, and the imagery of the lotus, does that very act, that instant of creation, become the state of clarity you seek?

答：我认为，莲的表达与我们当下的生活心境密切相关。它只是借助了莲这一“相”，即便描绘其他物象，同样可以达到这样的境界。莲本身所呈现的境界，实际上正是你内心所寻求的境界——当下的景，恰好暗合了你内心的需求，或者说你希望追求的某种精神境界。

举例来说，有一天清晨四五点钟，我起身去看莲花。那时天空呈现出鱼肚白色，太阳尚未升起。莲花的整个背景非常安静、完整，只有莲花晶莹剔透地从淤泥中挺拔而出，花瓣是白色的，仿佛自身在发光。那种圣洁的感觉，与你内心所追求的境界产生了深刻的共鸣。就在那一刻、那一瞬间，它暗合了你内心的某种追求。

实际上，莲正是你内心境界的外在显化。绘画的表达也是如此——借助色彩与形的语言，去呈现你内心深处的某种境界。

I believe that the expression of the lotus is closely related to our current state of mind and life. It merely makes use of the "appearance" of the lotus; even if one painted other subjects, the same state could still be achieved. The realm presented by the lotus is, in fact, precisely the realm you seek within your own heart. The scene before you happens to resonate with your inner needs, or with a certain spiritual state you wish to pursue.

For example, one morning around four or five o'clock, I got up and went to see the lotus flowers. At that time, the sky was showing the pale white of dawn, and the sun had not yet risen. The entire setting around the lotus was very quiet and complete, with only the lotus flowers emerging straight and crystal clear from the mud. Their petals were white, as if glowing on their own. That sacred feeling created a deep resonance with the state I was seeking in my heart. In that moment, in that instant, it resonated with something I was pursuing inwardly.

In fact, the lotus is precisely the external manifestation of your inner state. The same is true of painting: through the language of color and form, it presents a certain state deep within your heart.

荷 -吉祥|Lotus – Auspicious

布面油画 |Oil on canvas

120×120cm

2024

参加“东方意蕴时代精神”中国写意油画大展

话题三

问：范迪安先生曾提到您的画能将观者带入“一方身心俱洁的澄明世界”。但在当代艺术接受中，观者的解读是开放的、多元的。面对不同的观众，您是否期待他们以一种特定的路径（例如，安静地凝视）进入您的作品？还是说，您更愿意让作品成为一个完全开放的场域，任由每位观者基于自身的情感与阅历，去发现属于他们自己的“澄明世界”？

Mr. Fan Di'an once remarked that your paintings can bring viewers into "a tranquil and lucid world where both mind and body are utterly pure." However, in the contemporary reception of art, viewers' interpretations are open and pluralistic. Faced with different audiences, do you expect them to enter your work through a specific path—such as quiet contemplation? Or do you prefer your work to be a completely open field, allowing each viewer to discover their own "lucid world" based on their own emotions and life experiences?

答：一方身心俱静的澄明世界，在当代观众的解读中呈现出开放与多元的特征。面对不同观众，我们是否仍存在特定的表达意图？我想就此说明，为何要借助“五色”与“五行”来解读绘画中所蕴含的不同情绪。

每个人都有着喜怒哀乐、悲悯、恐惧、失落等传统意义上的情感体验，而这些情绪始终处于变化之中。某种色彩所具有的情绪倾向性，恰恰契合了每个人内在的情感表达。通过引入不同的色彩，我们可以以开放的方式，解读不同个体在欣赏绘画过程中的多元感受。从这个角度看，这一体系既是开放的，也是包容的。

A tranquil and lucid world, where both mind and body are at rest, presents itself as open and pluralistic in the interpretation of contemporary viewers. Faced with different audiences, do we still have a specific expressive intention? I would like to take this opportunity to explain why we turn to the "Five Colors" and the "Five Elements" to interpret the different emotions embedded in painting.

Every individual experiences emotional states in the traditional sense—joy, anger, sorrow, happiness, compassion, fear, loss, and so on—and these emotions are constantly in flux. The emotional inclination inherent in a particular color happens to resonate with each person's inner emotional expression. By introducing different colors, we can openly interpret the diverse feelings that different individuals experience while appreciating a painting. From this perspective, this system is both open and inclusive.

荷 - 阳光明媚 |Lotus - Sunny and Bright

布面油画 |Oil on canvas

120×120cm

2025

答：那么，为什么说“五色学说”所构建的色彩境界，既是开放的、包容的，同时又蕴含着智慧与普世价值？我认为，当我在发现并建构这一色彩学理论，将中国传统文化与绘画语言相结合进行创作时，它恰恰能够更加包容地接纳观众对作品的感受，也更能将创作者不同的状态与精神境界有效传递给观众。这正是多元开放的一种体现。

因此，我认为，通过色调与色相，便足以涵盖每个人不同的情绪变化。不同的色彩确实呈现出不同的状态。即使是在“和”的整体基调之下，这种“和”也包含多样状态。清晨、夜晚、黄昏，不同的红色、白色、绿色、紫色，皆表达着不同的境界。这一切，不过是借由外在的“象”，来表达我们内在的“心象”而已。

So why is it said that the realm of color constructed by the "Five Colors" theory is not only open and inclusive, but also imbued with wisdom and universal value? I believe that when I discovered and developed this theory of color, integrating traditional Chinese culture with the language of painting in my creative process, it became precisely capable of embracing the diverse responses of viewers to the work, while also effectively conveying the artist's different states and spiritual realms to the audience. This is precisely an embodiment of pluralistic openness.

Therefore, I believe that through tonalities and hues alone, we can sufficiently encompass the emotional variations of each individual. Different colors indeed present different states. Even under the overall keynote of "harmony" (He), this harmony contains multiple conditions. Dawn, night, and dusk—different shades of red, white, green, and purple—each express different realms. All of this is nothing other than using the external "image" to express the "image of the heart" within us.